Jackie Ogilvie: Underneath, we don't have a lot to show you. It

is the stories. It's the stories that we need to keep telling.

I'm a great believer for history, especially recent

history. We need to keep telling the stories or the stories die.

Yes. So if I can do my wee bit to tell the stories and keep

that continuity going and make sure that people still remember

the greatness of this wonderful city Yeah. I think that's a

privilege for me to be able to do that. Yeah.

Niall Murphy: I can't remember. About that.

Jackie Ogilvie: But it's the story. It's everyone's story.

Other than that, I take you to a car park. I take you down to an

old tunnel. I mean, the building itself is wonderful.

Yep. However, once you go down underneath, it's it's a little

bit less Yep. Yep. Architecturally divine. You you

you

Niall Murphy: you realise that when when you're doing a tour

and it's it's the human stories people connect with.

Jackie Ogilvie: Absolutely.

Niall Murphy: Hello, and welcome to the 3rd series of If

Glasgow's Walls Could Talk . I'm Neil Murphy, director of Glasgow

City Heritage Trust. And for this series, I'm joined by co

host, writer, and editor Fay Young. We're looking forward to

sharing 10 fantastic stories with you. Glasgow's Walls are

endlessly full of stories.

And where better to begin than Glasgow's central station? Right

in the heart of the city, it's the only station in the UK to

run guided tours, and it's revealing more and more of the

social history hidden throughout this wonderful building. We're

about to meet Jackie Ogilvie, one of the very talented guides

who brings these stories to life.

Fay Young: Yes, Neil. And that's an intriguing story in itself.

Jackie spent most of her working life as a banker, but in the

last few years, she's discovered her love for history,

storytelling, and generally unearthing treasures. She's

going to lead us through underground passages down to the

hidden Victorian platform, and on the way, we'll be able to

explore her great personal achievement, the new museum

where she spent a remarkably productive and often very moving

lockdown. But first, let's hand over to Jackie to tell us how

all this began.

Jackie Ogilvie: So the origin of the tour is our man, Paul.

Niall Murphy: Paul.

Jackie Ogilvie: Back in the day, 10 years ago, he wanted to do

tours of the station. Paul is a great reader and, really into

the history of the station. Right. And he was really keen to

do tours. Boss supported, but a little bit cautious.

So to try it out because none of this you have to remember back

in the day. Nothing none of this has been done before.

Niall Murphy: Yeah. You were

Jackie Ogilvie: we were breaking new ground Yes. And back then.

And they they approached Glasgow City Council through Doors

Open Day

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: And they took a 100 tickets for tours of the

station. Part of the tours on those particular days was on the

roof of the station. And we put the tickets on the website and

bought an excess of 80,000 applications. And as you can

imagine, the tour started right after that because it was quite

clear there was an appetite. I did.

So very much Paul's baby. He's been here.

Niall Murphy: Did it operate with us on their website?

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes. It it it not the website on on on Glasgow

City Council for 3 days, but but needless to say, the 2 have gone

after that. So Paul's been the constant. Myself, personally,

I've been a tour guide here now for just coming up for 5 years.

Right.

Okay. Loved it. Love every minute. My husband keeps saying

he can't believe somebody's paying me to talk. So so it's

always always quite, quite good to come in and and feel that you

can chat away with it.

Somebody tell me to be quiet. It's quite good.

Fay Young: Are you interested in history I would say I was

interested in history to a degree

Jackie Ogilvie: I like to think and I've got to watch. I don't

get emotional, but my mother was a great storyteller And she grew

up in the city centre of Edinburgh and lived during the

war on Castleway North on the steps just at the Esplanade.

Mhmm. And so she used to tell us all the stories about the city

centre of Edinburgh, and and there were fantastic stories

about and I would listen.

And I grew up with that and I think that has been come

embedded in me. I was always interested to degree in history

and especially in Scottish history. I worked as a banker

for most of my working life and then took care of retirement

redundancy. And I became a tour guide on the open top buses for

a bit of fun. I wanted to do something different, something

I've always dealt with people.

I'm a, you know, so it was I wanted to continue that, but I

wanted to do something for me. And I I I just discovered that I

loved it. I just loved it and it kinda got me in really Yeah.

More seriously into the background of especially this

wonderful city. Yeah.

There's just so much that a lot of the locals just don't know.

Niall Murphy: Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: So to be able to share that was was a joy.

Fay Young: And did you have to do some training for the the bus

tours?

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes. When you become a tour guide with city

sightseeing, the the the red buses that that tour the city.

They put you through your yellow badge for your tour guiding. So

you the Scottish tourist boat. Sure.

So you get I think a yellow badge means a particular city.

You have a green badge, which is multiple cities, and then you

have your blue badge, which is the whole of Scotland, and

that's the qualification levels. So they put you through, I think

it was 6 or 9 weeks training, which was was great in getting

all the information, but also getting help on structuring your

tours as well and what people were looking for, and how to

engage them. It was always a great foundation for me doing

the tours. That's what gave me the the skills to get with you.

Fay Young: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Niall Murphy: It's a definite art to it. I mean, I know from

having done various work in the site, I've got to do one along

the Clyde for the BBC's coast program once. Yeah. That was a

tough gig. Yeah.

Because there was, like, nothing left. So you're basically asking

people to kind of visualize in their head what was once there.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes.

Niall Murphy: And it wasn't until we got to the Clydeport

building, which is amazing Yeah. That everyone suddenly really

parked up. It's like, oh, thank god. A piece of architecture

that we actually talk about. Yes.

Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: And I think that that's quite comparable to the

station because, Neil, you've done the tour. Yeah. Underneath,

we don't have a lot to show you. It has the stories. It's the

stories that we need to keep telling.

I'm a great believer for history, especially recent

history. We need to keep telling the stories or the stories die.

Yes. So if I can do my wee bit to tell the stories and keep

that continuity going and make sure that people still remember

the greatness of this wonderful city, I think that's a privilege

for me to be able to do that, the building itself is

wonderful. Yep.

However, once you go down underneath, it's it's a little

bit less

Niall Murphy: Yep. Yep.

Jackie Ogilvie: Architecturally divine. You you you

Niall Murphy: you realize that when when you're doing a tour

and it's it's the human stories people connect with.

Jackie Ogilvie: Absolutely. And there's so many things that and

I'll I'll show you later on when we're we're going through. There

are things that you always hear. People start to tell their

stories. Mhmm.

It triggers memories with them.

Niall Murphy: Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: And then they start to tell their stories. And

if that's what happens when you're here and and it's

continuing Yeah. Then You can you can you

Niall Murphy: can get proper dialogue.

Jackie Ogilvie: Absolutely. Absolutely. And emotionally, you

know, it can it can go from quite a cold tour and then

something that triggers somebody, you know, or a group

to have memories and then suddenly it becomes very emotive

Niall Murphy: Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: And then very, very personal Yes. To the people

that are on the tour. So so before we

Fay Young: start the tour, if we could just spend a moment

looking at what is around us Yeah. Because I suppose, like

most people, when I come here, I'm on my way to catch a train

and I Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: I think I've really I I I it's running and

then I hurry. Yeah. I I tell you what

Niall Murphy: I what

Jackie Ogilvie: I tell my customers when they come on. So

on the 1st August 18 79, central station opened their doors. She

was built, of course, by the Caledonian railway company, and

it was built on a site of a small village. A small village

called Grahamston, which has been forgotten. But I'll tell

you I can tell you more about that later on.

When we first opened our doors, she wasn't the size she is

today. She was we had 8 platforms. Where our platform 9

is today, that was our platform 1. And where platform 9 is, if

you look at the green pillars with a huge rivets sticking out

them, that's the border. That was the original station.

From from the green pillars out to Union Street. So that was the

original station. 8 platforms. Couple of years later, platform

9 was added because well, this had been a bit of an experiment

and passenger transport was growing at a pace no day

predicted. And then, we were doing fine, but passenger

transport was growing and growing.

So in the initial build of central station in 18/79, the

west side of the village of Grahamston, that survived. Saint

Columba's Gaelic Church was the most famous building of that

until 1901 when we decide it's time to build an extension. So

when we start our extension, the rest of Grahamstown is

demolished. We take the stops, which the stops have come in

here much further forward than what they do to just in the

middle of the concourse, really, that's where the trains would

have come to back in the day. And remember, people have this

romantic notion that central station back in the day was a

beautiful beautiful place and it was atmospheric, but it was a

dirty, filthy place to come because you were coming in and

the the smoke, all the stirring them up was coming in.

The glass was black with the smoke caked on. So when we

started our extension, we pushed we pushed them back. Stops for

the trains really went back to where they are today, roughly,

and we added on some platforms at the west side. We also built

a brand new bridge. For those of you who frequent Glasgow, I'm

quite sure you'll all have seen the supports for our original

bridge.

They stick out the Clyde. You can't miss them if you're down

on the Broomielaw, you'll see them or if or if if you happen

to be on a train leaving on the east side, you'll see them

sticking out the river. And they just well, they just won the end

of the road, so we left them. We built our bridge which doubled

our capacity, but The problem that it gave us was when it was

completed, the only place we could add our extra platforms on

that we needed was the west side, and our numbering of the

platforms was not what we needed. So we had to reverse it

in 1906 .

Once the extension was complete. Right. So we we reversed the

numbering. So if you see an old photograph of central station

and 8 or 9 are over on the east side, it's just old. It's not

wrong.

Yeah. Yeah. The roof is original. Glass replaced in

1998. So, she's a longitudinal ridge and furrow.

People will just think she's just full of girders, which is

right, and it plays absolute havoc with our Wi Fi. That's

right. It's just it's just birthday cake. It's just getting

caught. We keep getting told it's very good, but it's not.

And I think it is the girders interfere with it. Right. Okay.

So longitudinal ridge and furrow roof is is the technical term

for it. And that sounds quite technical.

It's really, really simple. Yeah. Because at Garden Street

is north. Out onto the tracks is south, she's running

longitudinal. Yeah.

And if you look up and see, you'll see ridges and furrows

just in where it says on the

Niall Murphy: tin. Absolutely.

Jackie Ogilvie: So she is

Niall Murphy: I love this room. It is.

Jackie Ogilvie: It's an incredible It's really dramatic

and powerful. Absolutely. And 2 sections. The architect for the

original build was a man called Robert Rowand Anderson, and he

did the original build. When it came to the extension, a former

railway architect, James Miller, was awarded the contract for

here.

I'm a big big fan of James Miller and there's so many so

many buildings in Glasgow by this man. At the time, it was

Glasgow's most prolific architect. Yes. But he doesn't

get talked an awful lot about. I think some of that was

Niall Murphy: It's a shame.

Jackie Ogilvie: It's a it's a it's a shame.

Niall Murphy: He should be better known.

Jackie Ogilvie: Oh, absolutely better now.

Niall Murphy: Yeah. His his interventions in this station

are really interesting. I've been working with Donald

Matheson, the Yeah. Color data where we're gonna be his

engineer.

Jackie Ogilvie: So of course, they went they went to school

together.

Niall Murphy: Connection back in Perthshire. So that was it.

Right? That's

Jackie Ogilvie: very impressive. To school together.

Niall Murphy: So the things like the the huge pocks

Jackie Ogilvie: Yeah.

Niall Murphy: And the torpedo rim, this is what we was called,

which is where you chose that. I just think these are amazing

because they're designed to make you flow through

Jackie Ogilvie: a station like a river.

Niall Murphy: But it's still massive. I mean, for the United

States and

Jackie Ogilvie: Canada, you

Niall Murphy: can see what's happening in stations there. But

those ideas back here.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yeah. If you look around at our internal

buildings, we don't have any corners. That was James Miller's

idea. Let it let everything flow through and it's just soft and

you're you're going through. So and again, that's something that

people don't realize, but we don't actually have any severe

cornerstone.

So then in 1901, we've moved all the bits back. We've provided on

our platform. And then at that point, we have to reverse our

numbering of our platforms because we were going west to

east. We had to turn that around and go east to west to fit in

the extra platforms that we were adding Yeah. In the extension.

So that

Fay Young: was a simple idea, actually. Yes. And it's just

renumber it. Just renumber them. Yeah.

Niall Murphy: I wondered about one thing, and I wonder whether

you could this one. This has puzzled me for years. The dome

over Champagne Central, because James Miller did the all the

great liners. He did the interiors. He was the only one

of the only architects to admit to actually do in this.

Yes. So we've seen it's beneath architects to be involved in

kind of liner design, which amazes me. Yeah. Of

Jackie Ogilvie: course, he had the anchorline building

Niall Murphy: He did.

Jackie Ogilvie: In in Saint Vincent Place.

Niall Murphy: And Lusitania, the interiors on the Lusitania. So

but he worked with Oscar Patterson quite a bit, the great

Glasgow stained glass artist. And I was told that that dome

was originally stained glass, but it's now it's a plaster dome

inside. And I wondered at some point if that changed. And

before, Grand Central was kind of, you know, recreated and kind

of regenerated, there in each of those windows, there was in the

kind of the central pane of the kind of, you've kind of got the

upper panes with the kind of the grids in them.

The central pane had a piece of stained glass from Oscar

Patterson in them. When it was refurbished, they were all

removed because I remember them being there and I've no idea

what happened to them. And it's

Jackie Ogilvie: a late I I apologize because I am not aware

of that. I wasn't aware of that.

Niall Murphy: So I just I'd always wonder whether that had

continued up and say, don't because he did all these

fabulous domes elsewhere. Yes. It's been lovely. And I wondered

whether it might be removed from the 2nd World War. You wouldn't

want light shining up when

Jackie Ogilvie: Possibly. Possibly. The one that tried

Niall Murphy: to move to the city.

Jackie Ogilvie: Well, during World War II, of course, we

painted our our glass black. Yeah. In 19 sixties, they tried

to remove it, found it very difficult because it wasn't just

black paint. It was, in fact, the baked on tar from all the

the the trains. And it wasn't until 1998 that they replaced

all the glass in the station as a renovation project.

So people, when they come into the station today, accept that

Central Station is a very light and airy place. Back then, it

was a dirty, filthy, dark and very dark place. Very dark. And

that was really up till 1998.

Niall Murphy: It's amazing. Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: Isn't that you have to say This is not this is

not a 100 years ago. This is just very recent. So and of

course, there's renovations going on just now.

Niall Murphy: Yes.

Fay Young: Yeah. Yes. You are struck by the light and and

that's reflected

on the floor as

well, isn't it?

Niall Murphy: Yeah. I think this is 19 eighties, the flooring.

Right. So because it wasn't wasn't like this originally. Oh,

no.

The station has changed quite a bit. So there's a ramp up at the

back, which was for taxis. And so taxis were Central Central

Station Hotel, was to come through the back around the back

of the torpedo route, and then out that wee arch, which is now

a pedestrian arch. So can can be different nowadays.

Jackie Ogilvie: And and and is, Carriage Drive was originally

created in the original station from the affluent members of

society in Glasgow. They didn't really want to mix with the

riffraff on the concourse. So they would come up, they would

come up carriage drive off Hope Street, and it's like people

will remember it because we all used it. Pick up our grannies or

our aunties or whatever. At where platform 15/14 or 15 are

today.

So you would come up as a kind of spiral that comes up and you

would come up to 14 and 15. And then we were offered and told we

were getting a link to Glasgow Airport. So we brought 14 and 15

which had been sitting far out. We brought them in ready for

that and we're still So so and carriage drive is still in use,

but only for emergency vehicles and and business access. Oh,

that's sweet.

We can take a real look at the Classic. Absolutely. It's quite

interesting piece of architecture as well. So the

concourse in itself, when you're here, there's lots to see. Mhmm.

Most most people focus on the board, which is quite sad when

all this beauty is around them. Mhmm. You'll also notice that

there are no pillars on the concourse. And again, the idea

for that was that we wanted this flow. The load bearing for the

roof, which as you can imagine, is quite substantial, are the

pillars that run along the side.

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: So all of the crisscrosses that you see in the

girders creates a weight, spreading the weight and taking

it out to the ends, and then it's the pillars at the side

that actually bear the load. And the same as behind the the

behind the torpedo, you'll see pillars again exactly the same.

Niall Murphy: As well. Fascinating. I had no idea. I

just think it's such an evocative space. It's my

favorite space in

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes. And I don't I I defy anyone in Glasgow to

not have a story about Central Station. Mhmm. Most people have.

And most people have a love for Central Station.

Niall Murphy: Very much.

Jackie Ogilvie: Queen Street Station, they can spend what

they like on us. She'll never have the kudos that Central

station has.

Fay Young: Why do you think that is? I mean, it's it's is it

because it's the main arrival point for Glasgow for people

coming from elsewhere?

Jackie Ogilvie: Sure. Let me move over the south. I'm I'm not

really sure why that is, but everybody you speak to on the 2

tells you that it is, you know, that it is central Yeah. That

pulls at the heartstrings. Yeah.

Niall Murphy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: Queen Street is just a way to get to Edinburgh

and back. Yes. Well, it is. It is. It is.

Yeah. It is. A 100%.

Niall Murphy: It's it has gotten better with its new extension.

Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: It's nice of it. Really? To me. Central's got the

history. Absolutely.

And it's something you make some more money.

Niall Murphy: And yet

Jackie Ogilvie: Queen Street's older.

Niall Murphy: Yeah. I know which is really nice.

Jackie Ogilvie: Which is really true. And Queen Street has its

own history. Yeah. She was built on on the the the Bell's quarry

or or Yes. And the Crack on House quarry quarry as it was

known.

Right. Built there when the sandstone quarry was exhausted.

The city then went out to Giffnock to Bishopbriggs and

they Yes. Sands more blonde sandstone. And the majority of

the blonde sands when they built George Square came from

Niall Murphy: Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: Underneath where Queen Street Station was built.

Fay Young: Yeah. Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: So there you go. That's fascinating. So she has

her own She does. But it's not as good as central. I know.

I know.

Niall Murphy: Fascinating.

Jackie Ogilvie: So she has her own history She does. Which is

not as good as central. I know. Well, I mean,

Niall Murphy: I'm really interested by the fact that

you've kind of really zeroed in on the history and you make so

much of the history here too. Yeah. Are there any other

stations in the UK that kind of mainline stations that do that

to the same degree?

Jackie Ogilvie: No. This is the only, at the moment.

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: I will I will just put that in there with

caveat. At the moment, we are the only network rail station in

the whole of the UK that does tours. But I know that, the

London Underground do take you down underneath them to old

abandoned stations, but that's the London Underground. But

network rail, we are the only station that does formal tours

like this and we're the only one that has a formal museum. Right.

At the moment.

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: That may change in the future. Plans are afoot

to maybe able to keep expanding that because it is such an

interest in it.

Niall Murphy: Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: And it's Yeah. You know, people want

Fay Young: it so And is is there any sort of pattern? What kind

of people are most interested or can you touch hearts and raise

curiosity and

Jackie Ogilvie: So we get a lot of railway enthusiasts Right.

Who come. But the majority of the people who come on our tour

are Glaswegians because Glaswegians love their city and

they want to hear about their city and they want to tell hear

the stories and they want to tell Tell. Their story as well

to share it with other people. So when they come on the tour,

we do a lot of that.

We do a lot of, you know, exchanging, of stories and it's

just it's just wonderful. And it's mostly mostly Glasgow.

There's a lot of people who come from a lot of other places too.

I don't want to to make it that. We get them a lot of Scottish,

from all over Scotland.

Paul has done a fabulous job in in bringing it alive and

bringing it from just a guy that wanted to do some tours of his

beloved station to to being the the business venture that it

really is today.

Niall Murphy: Uh-huh. Yes.

Fay Young: Right? And a model for others.

Jackie Ogilvie: Oh, yes. Very much so. Very

Niall Murphy: much so. Uh-huh.

Jackie Ogilvie: We're not perfect, We're absolutely not

perfect. But but, yeah, we could do it elsewhere. Network Rail

could recoup some of the you know, make some money out of it.

Yeah. Do you want to move on?

Fay Young: Yes, please. Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: So we've just come up now from the main

concourse. We're heading up towards where the platforms 14

and 15 are. Just before the police, British Transport Police

Office on our right hand side just ahead of us. And we're just

looking at the joining point, if you like, of the old and the

new. With platform 9 here is you can see the green pillars.

These green pillars with all those fabulous rivets sticking

out, which is just wonderful. Yeah. And that's the border.

That would have been the original 18/79. Extension came

along and this is from platform 9 out to Hope Street and all the

way down to Argyle Street.

That was the new part of the station. And you can tell by the

roof. And street gutters in the original, arch gutters in the

extension. Again, this is us talking about Rob Rowand

Anderson for the original and James Miller for the extension.

So he created the extension here.

I think I mean, engineers tell me that these arches are

stronger, maybe a bit cheaper because how much finer they are.

I think Jimmy Miller was just saying, this is my bit.

Niall Murphy: I think you're right.

Jackie Ogilvie: Because I did this. He wanted it to be

distinct.

Niall Murphy: Yeah. I think so. I think they're a lot more

elegant than the Very much so. I really like them because they're

so handsome. Straws are chunky and strong.

Yes. And you know they're doing a job. Yes. These are much more

delicate by comparison.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes. Absolutely. I really like

Niall Murphy: them too. I really like the contrast Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: In this. It is. It is wonderful. And the block

the big blonde pillars here.

Niall Murphy: Yes. Yeah. The whole way that it's kind of the

one connection to the other is so elegant beyond. Yes. It's So

really nice.

It was a

Fay Young: huge arch windows

Jackie Ogilvie: prize. Yeah. But people come through here all the

time and they they don't even notice it. And then once once

once you've seen it, you can't unsee it. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. You will wait a minute. We'll wait a minute.

Fay Young: I wish you'd not

Jackie Ogilvie: How come I've never seen that before?

Fay Young: Yeah. Absolutely.

Niall Murphy: So and then you got the helienmens umbrella as

well, which

Jackie Ogilvie: is Yeah.

Niall Murphy: Again, really elegantly handled.

Jackie Ogilvie: Absolutely. That's

Niall Murphy: such a huge bridge in the, you know, the heart of

the city. And it could be quite,

Jackie Ogilvie: ugly. Thank

Niall Murphy: you. It's probably near really beautiful. You did.

Jackie Ogilvie: That was William Arnold.

Niall Murphy: Yes. That

Jackie Ogilvie: just like and was responsible for that. So

this is carriage drive here. So this is just in front of the BTP

police office here and the old road that came up. As I said

earlier, this is where you would have come up, no charges, it was

great. You came up here, you picked up your granny right off

the train and straight back down.

So in the original days, the taxis on the trip would come up

or your car would come up and you would drive down the back of

where today we've got Marks and Spencers in boots and out onto,

right out onto Gordon Street. Today, restricted access for

emergency vehicles, access that we need as a station to operate.

And above the arch, you can see the coat of arms

Niall Murphy: Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: Of the Caledonia and Railway Company. Carved

stone. That's beautiful. And the sad thing about this arch being

tucked away in here now is Yeah.

Niall Murphy: That is

Jackie Ogilvie: nobody gets to see that anymore. But we have a

on the the the tour, we have a mural of the coat of arms. And

it's lovely, but it's nothing like what you can see today. Of

course you do. You never saw it.

And if you really started looking. We have the cathedral

windows out onto Hope Street again. This was we believe maybe

James Miller was influenced by, Isambard Kingdom Brunel when he

had designed his Bristol Temple Meads. Bristol Temple Meads

became known as the cathedral to the, to the steam train. So to

the Iron Horse.

Right. I did not Which, of course, is the steam train. And

these beautiful cathedral windows, again, they let so much

light in.

Niall Murphy: It really

Jackie Ogilvie: But again, people just walk past them and

just take them for granted. Yes. Because we don't have that on

the east side. Yes. Engineering, is a big part of central station

as well.

The buffers here, we have some original and we have some

modern. If you go to platform 14/15, you're up there. You'll

see a very different set of buffers than what we've got here

at platform 10 and 11. Original from, we believe, the extension.

Right.

In 1906. These buffers here can stop a 400 ton train travelling

at 12 miles per hour within 7 feet. Wow. They are powered by

water. Problem with water is it's got quite a high freezing

temperature.

Uh-huh. So they have their own central heating system to ensure

that they don't freeze. However, back in the late 19 nineties I

think the late 19 nineties, apologies if that date is wrong,

Somebody turned off the heating.

Niall Murphy: Not during that really bad winter. Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: Oh my goodness. I've chosen the worst time to do

it. So, yes, they turned them off and they froze and they were

some of them cracked. Right. So the plant had to be repaired,

But the majority of them are still original.

I believe it was the front parts that cracked. So

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: But an incredible piece and it really

is. The the Clyde

Niall Murphy: for a silver is like minus 27 or something.

Glass gets ridiculous. Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: Couldn't have picked a last year to turn off

heat.

Niall Murphy: Now we're gonna step through a door and Jackie,

who will be taking us behind the scenes, will take us down a set

of escape stairs that will take us all the way below to the

mysterious vaults that are at the heart of the station below

the main concourse.

Jackie Ogilvie: So we've arrived just outside, the museum. We're

now 2 floors down from the concourse. Mhmm. So I'm not

gonna say 2 floors down from street level because we're not

Niall Murphy: probably about street level now. Yeah. Which is

But we're 2 floors down

Jackie Ogilvie: to the concourse. So yeah. It's built

up and and also Hope Street's on on a bit of a slope. When I

first came here, one of the things that I really wanted to

get was one of the old departure boards. They resonate with the

people of Glasgow because of a certain generation.

I always say it's anybody over 27, but that's just because I'm

including myself with it. So anybody who came in and

frequented the station pre 1986 would remember these because

this is how you found your way to your train. We didn't have

electronic boards. Nobody had electronic boards. It wasn't

just central.

Nobody had electronic boards back then. So I was keen to get

them. And difficult to come by, well, there's plenty of them,

but those that have them want to keep them. So until the Haughey

family who own Glasgow Salvage and Paisley Mhmm. They very

kindly offered me this middle one on loan, and I grabbed it

with both hands.

Then Irene, who lives in the West End, her daughter contacted

me to say that Irene had a couple of them lying in her

garage. Did I want them? Irene's late mother and herself had

purchased these from British Rail when we changed over. So at

that point, British Rail was selling pieces off so the public

could come in and buy bits. I mean, they were selling all

sorts.

Departure boards were very, very, very, very in demand,

shall we say. They sold well. They paid £7 and £7.50, and I've

got all the original paperwork for them as well. So I then

wanted to display them. I wanted to hopefully evoke some of these

memories and the emotions that these bring.

And our wonderful station joiner, Greg, he created this

all from old photographs because Greg is just a young man and

wasn't born in by 1986. So so this is this is just it's just

wonderful. And people love it. People who come just love it

because, again, it takes them back in time to maybe when they

were young, waiting in the station to get on their train.

So during the tours, a number of months ago, a lady, probably

last year, There's a lady on Paul's tour.

And as I said to you just a moment ago, emotions come when

you see these things that bring back your memories of when you

were younger and maybe better times. And a woman was on the

tour, and she was she was very, you know, emotive at this point.

And she said to Paul, I've got something, and I'm gonna bring

it in for you. Mhmm. And what she handed in was a 36 inch

wooden ruler.

Mhmm. Now it's no ordinary 36 inch wooden ruler because this

belonged to a man called Sandy Moffat. Mhmm. And Sandy Moffat

back in the day was Glasgow Central Station's sign writer.

Right.

One of Glasgow Central Station sign writers. So there is a

really good chance he is the man that painted by hand all of

these boards and he used the ruler.

Niall Murphy: Isn't it?

Jackie Ogilvie: This ruler here. Yeah. And I just love that story

because

Niall Murphy: You can see the

Jackie Ogilvie: you can see the things back. Yeah. Yeah. You can

see all the lines where he's used it. The ruler, it's

fantastic.

Niall Murphy: Here we go!

Fay Young: Ooh!

Jackie Ogilvie: Welcome to the museum

Jackie Ogilvie: This is what I spent my

time doing.

Niall Murphy: I think it's fantastic. You've done such a

phenomenal job with this.

Jackie Ogilvie: This is what I spent my time doing during the

lockdown.

Niall Murphy: Uh-huh.

Jackie Ogilvie: When I first came here, I was asked to create

a museum, but it was just an empty room, completely empty.

There were about 1 or 2 bits and pieces lying about in the

station. And then we started to pull them together. In my

previous roles, one of the key points of my role when I worked

in banking was networking. When I came to Network Real, I was

really at a disadvantage because I didn't know anybody.

Mhmm. So I made it my business to start networking Mhmm.

Because I couldn't do what was that I'd been asked to do

without Yeah. A lot of people's help. One of the first people

that I contacted was Norry Gilliland a lovely young man who

wrote Glasgow's forgotten village all about the Grahamston

story.

And we met here. And he told me about these boards, which detail

so much of Grahamston's story. And he said he'd use them to

launch his book at the Mitchell library and he said I think

they're just lying in a cupboard somewhere you know not getting

you you may want to ask. So I met with Duncan Donan. Duncan

Donan is the man who's in charge of all the museums and libraries

in in Glasgow.

And he very very kindly arranged for these boards to be gifted,

down to ourselves, and it's just wonderful. When I first got

them, I I kinda was saying to people, and this saved me an

awful lot of work. It didn't save me an awful lot of work. I

would never have done as much work as this. You know?

I wouldn't have done half of this. This is a fabulous

fabulous addition.

Niall Murphy: It really is.

Jackie Ogilvie: And it's wonderful that it's been brought

out the cupboard and everybody's been able to see it. Yeah. I

just like that it's we brought it from the depths of the

archives and the Mitchell Library to them. So, yes. So so

Norrie's boards were wonderful.

And again, the the maintenance team and the station, they,

created the boards and and did did all of this to try and

display them as best we could. And of course, there's 2 two

buildings left from Grahamston. There's lots of stories about

cobble streets down underneath, and shop fronts and all the rest

of it. That's not true. Sadly.

Sadly. It's not true. It's not true. However, what was what is

the Rennie Mackintosh Hotel opened in about 1800. So we

don't have any 1600s at Grahamston stuff.

We have 1800s opened originally as a Duncan's Temple and then

down just round the corner and onto Argyle Street, we have the

Grant Arms, and they are both roundabout 1800s, but they are

original. Grahamston buildings, and that's really all that's

left of Grahamston.

Niall Murphy: Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yeah. Because everything else

Niall Murphy: We helped with

Jackie Ogilvie: with the Yes. They did.

Niall Murphy: Conservation of it. So so there was a lot

Jackie Ogilvie: of conservation done down on that building

during lockdown, wasn't it?

Niall Murphy: Yeah. It was. Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: Because I was concerned at first, and then I

realized it was actually somebody doing something to keep

it.

Niall Murphy: Great to get up close because I had to inspect

it also.

Jackie Ogilvie: And they do celebrate it. Yeah.

Niall Murphy: They've done a fantastic job on it.

Jackie Ogilvie: So a really interesting completely away from

architecture, but a really interesting story about the

Grant Adams. Part of Scottish legal system is a thing called

the Moorov doctrine. Yes. The Moorov doctrine is where so in

Scotland, you must have corroboration. We're not like

England down south.

You must have a corroborating witness for any crime to have

been committed except. So back in the day, above the Grant

Adams up here, there's a tailors. And the tailor employed

young women seamstresses, lots of them. And they came and they

went and they came and they went. And the young lady went to

the police because he was being inappropriate with her.

And they said, well, do you have any witnesses? No. We don't have

any witnesses. And then another young lady went to the police

and said he was being inappropriate. Mhmm.

Mhmm. And several then went And it went to the high courts the

courts of land and they introduced what was called the

Moorov doctrine. He was Moorov was the man's name. He was the

tailor. And it was where you had so now in Scotland, whilst we

look for corroboration normally under the more of doctrine, what

you can have is this is a very simple explanation, by the way.

I'm not a legal mind at all. But this is a simple is that you can

have multiple people telling you the same thing with the same

details about the same person. And that becomes that whilst

they went there when each crime was committed, they are telling

you that the same thing has happened. And that's called the

Moorov doctrine. And that all happened in the Grant Arms.

Niall Murphy: I'm off

Jackie Ogilvie: the Grant Arms. So Yeah. Yeah.

Niall Murphy: Yeah. That's a Yes. Yeah. Another weak story.

Scottish Scottish legal precedent,

Jackie Ogilvie: which

Niall Murphy: is, yeah, really, really interesting.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes.

Niall Murphy: I think that's again, that's a world first,

that one.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes. It is. Yeah. Absolutely. But then,

Glasgow is always a a leader.

Cutting edge city. Absolutely. Always. Always. Always.

So one of the things that I thought you might be interested

in is our station masters. Station masters of Glasgow

Central Station was a very prestigious job, very

prestigious. I mean, to be a station master anyway was good,

but to get central station, ah, you made it. You've done it.

You were right at the

top of the tree. So when I started, I thought it might be

quite good to try and find out more about the station masters.

I was kind of half hearted going into it. Just touching and

looking and finding. And if something landed on my lap, I

was okay.

And then so what I didn't know was about a man here called, we

have a photograph in the museum of him, and his name is Thomas

Allison. He was here from 1903 to 1919. That man there took the

station through the 1st World War.

Niall Murphy: Wow.

Jackie Ogilvie: That must have been quite some job. Yeah. And

remembering back in the day, the station master would have been

responsible for everything in the station. So took it through

the world war. So I knew about Thomas Allison.

I knew where he was buried. I knew he'd lost one of his sons

in one of the wars. Knew a bit about him. I've got his work

history. Knew all about that.

So I thought, I know a bit about him. And then I also knew about

a man called I got told about a man called John Gibson. John

Gibson was here for a year, only a year. He was station master,

and he died up in the tracks. He was responsible for shunting

work, supervising shunting, and he it was a very dense fog.

Add to that all the steam and the steward and the muck for the

steam locals, and he stepped out of the way of 1 engine right

into the track of another. And he was killed up on the tracks.

Right. He died the following day. But my grandfather's name

was John Gibson.

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: Not the same John Gibson. My brother's name

is John Gibson.

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: Guess what? I was hooked. Yeah. I can imagine.

Oh no.

I need I need to do more. So I then found out about Robert

Scorgi a man who I have his walking cane all inscribed. And

he was here between 1922 and 1937 and I started digging a

little bit more I subscribed to old newspapers to do some

research and I now have I then ended up with every station

master from George Farquharson when we opened our doors right

through to 1944, a man called Thomas Tinning in 1944. Thomas

Tinning came, and and it almost came out it almost came to an

end, and I couldn't get any information about him. I saw his

appointment, didn't see anything else, and really struggled to

find anything else during my research.

I think he was I thought he was kind of maybe found out that he

might be buried in Lanark, but, hey ho, I'm not sure. And it

really became quite demoralizing because everybody else didn't

know how well we stayed here or anything. But when I was doing

more research and more research, I so I kind of parked it. But

one of the things I found out was that Thomas Allison, the man

I thought I knew so much about, just a wee tiny snippet in the

newspaper, and I saw a wee bit about him that he traveled back

to his father. His father owned a farm in West Lothian.

The farm was called Parkhead Farm. I went to Parkhead Primary

School Uh-huh. Which is built on Parkhead Farm in West Lothian.

Niall Murphy: It's a small world.

Jackie Ogilvie: I think there is greater power. Yeah. Absolutely.

It was meant to be. I think it was meant to be.

It was I I could not believe. He was born less than a mile from

where I was born. Yeah. So I was born in the house, not in in the

hospital. So I I was absolutely taken aback, but still

frustrated with the, Thomas Tinnings thing.

And then last October 2023, I went and hollered and came back

to an email, an email from a gentleman who lives in

Inverness. And he says, Jackie, I'm coming down. I don't know

where everybody gets my email with it. It must be floating

about in the system somewhere. I'm coming down to do the tour

on Wednesday.

And I just wonder if you would like some stuff that I've got.

It belonged to my grandfather. My grandfather used to be the

station master of Glasgow Central Station, and his name

was Thomas Timming. Oh my heavens above. I was jumping up

and down.

And they all thought I was mad. But this is something that so

what I now have and I have it on display here is a photograph an

etching of Thomas Tinning man with the top hat there. I also

have his gold watch. I also have newspaper cuttings telling me

more about the story of this man and he was I believe he was the

last station master.

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: After that, it became station manager. So was

it a

Fay Young: very different culture when you had a station

master? How always

Jackie Ogilvie: the relation with the rest of it? Yes. If you

look at any of the photographs of station masters, they were

quite stern looking, you know, and very, very authoritarian.

And they they wore a long black coat, a top hat, and they

usually had a walking cane. There's Robert walking cane.

So so we have a walk and they would strut about, but they were

responsible for everything. So you think about the station

today, we have Drew Burns, who's our network rail. He runs the

station. He's responsible for the security of the station, the

efficient running of the station. Then we have Kat McGee,

who is she's the ScotRail manager for the station.

She manages the trains. We have an Avanti manager. We've got all

the so the train operating companies are very They have

Niall Murphy: their managers.

Jackie Ogilvie: Right. So they have their own managers. Drew

manages the station itself, the building, the infrastructure,

and the security of the station, and all the maintenance that

goes along with it. Whereas back in the day, stationmaster would

have that, plus all the trains, plus all the shunting, plus all

everything. Everything that would have been underneath.

So quite incredible. Mhmm.

Fay Young: I'm just looking at that board there.

Jackie Ogilvie: The I know. The vital statistics at the station

and and 111,000 passengers every day. Yep. That's That's amazing,

isn't it? So I've just confirmed what our our statistics are just

now. So we're back up to maybe about on average daily, about 80

to 90,000, which which is good because we were way, way down

post COVID. I was gonna say. So the weekends tend to be very

busy. Right. You know, we're we're back up to where we were

at the weekends, but not so much, not so much through the

week. Still needing to get up a wee bit further. Working from

home is the the Yeah. Frustration for us. A real

problem for the city centre.

Fay Young: It is. It is. I

Niall Murphy: mean, it's it's it's like a catch twenty three.

Glasgow's got a really good commuter network. So it means

you can work from home relatively easily. Yes. And

that's gone against the city center.

All those people who would have come into the city center, a lot

of them are now working from home. Yes. And that is putting

the city center kind of, the economy of the city center under

pressure.

Jackie Ogilvie: Absolutely. And and and the rail was just part

of it. Yeah. This is a kilt. A kilt made from the kilt.

Niall Murphy: Made from railway tickets. Love it.

Fay Young: Fabulous. Very nice.

Niall Murphy: That is fabulous. Great fun.

Fay Young: But isn't it weird the effect of COVID and

lockdown? What was your work like here? What what were you It

was like

Jackie Ogilvie: a ghost town when we came in to begin with. I

missed it dreadfully. I missed the interaction. Mhmm. The human

the human points.

Yeah. I mentioned to you earlier, I've always worked with

people. Yeah. People are what make me get up in the morning.

Yeah.

People coming on the tour help me get through my day, make my

day better for meeting them. And I really, really miss that.

Mhmm. And I came back to work and I thought I think I was

given the the option to to retrain, to to do some of the

stuff that was going on upstairs and or work on with the museum.

And I am so glad that the option that I was you know, I took the

option to work in the museum.

It was the right decision for me and for the station and the

tours. I'm glad I did that. The museum just started to come

together. And it is that I have to say at times at the

beginning, I kept thinking, I don't know how I had all these

ideas, lots of ideas, but bringing them to fruition was a

challenge, to say the least. And getting things done, getting the

pieces that you needed to fill this room, I mean, to begin

with, it was very empty.

And then I started doing re extra bits, you know, and then

something would come. I think when the penny dropped, I

thought we could absolutely do the museum. The clocks. Mhmm.

The big clocks that we have, which were they're not that old,

maybe 50, sixties at the very oldest because because the the

face is covered with perspex, not glass.

Mhmm. So that allows us to age it much younger than we would

have liked it to have been. But we had all these clocks and we

managed to get the I say we. I just nagged and nagged, and I

was the pusher, and and got the maintenance team, Our

maintenance team in central station, they've helped me do my

job. Without them, we wouldn't have a museum.

It would be a pile of old stuff in the middle of the room. So

the museum is as much theirs as mine. And they managed to help

get the clocks working. And then I went off for a few days. And I

came back.

And they had put them up. And I was extremely emotional coming

in. Because at that point, I thought this is a big step

forward. Then getting the boards for Grahamston, then the

railings. We found these railings, which Railway Heritage

believed them to be probably original to 1901, 1906.

And And we found them just leaning up against the wall

somewhere in the station. Heavy as well. Well, because on your I

kept thinking everything else has been everything else has

gone. Everything else has gone to the scrappy to get money for

it or whatever. I'm speculating it.

Probably not, but everything had gone, and these were still

there. And I couldn't understand why. And then we tried to move

them. And we realized. And it took 3 men and a huge, big

trolley to bring these from where we found them in one of

the corridors to here and they are just and then the guys again

they put them up here They frame the clocks.

They absolutely, you know, they just yeah. They set that off.

Niall Murphy: They're so elegant. So they're really,

Jackie Ogilvie: really accordion. And and I've had

people on the tour who do this for a living. You know, they do

iron work, and they said, what is there is very, very

difficult. It's very intricate for Iron work to achieve.

Niall Murphy: Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yeah. As a very skilled person, it's nice.

Fay Young: Yeah. Such pride in producing something. Absolutely.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yep. So lots of bits and pieces, some which we

know what they are, some not so much. A lot of telecom stuff, a

lot of blueprints and, you know.

Niall Murphy: But then telecom stands. So why, John will

Logie Baird , you know Absolutely. Had had, you know,

did his experiment from Central Station Hotel because you had

the straight run all the way down to London. Yes. So he

could, you know, he could prove it, and then he could they could

get the message back saying it was working

Jackie Ogilvie: or not. I think it was 1926 he sent from London

to Glasgow Central Station Hotel the very first television

signal. Yeah. And it was on in black and white. It was on a

very small screen.

Yes. But it was the first. Yes. And I just wonder what would

make of what we've got today.

Niall Murphy: I know. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes. I do wonder what it would make of what we've

got today. It's quite interesting. One of the things I

also did when I came here, and this was really instigated by

Susan Holden, who was the station manager at that time was

to engage with we wanted to to make this a Glasgow museum, a

Glasgow to bring people in, and and work with us. So Glasgow

School of Art was a natural choice.

So I contacted Glasgow School of Art. Now I'm a great believer in

why things happen. It seems to just sometimes be fate. Mhmm. I

phoned Glasgow School of Art, and I was speaking to I can't

remember if it was a press office or or it was somebody,

you know, in the offices, and I was saying, look.

Here's what we're thinking about doing. We would like to do a

piece, maybe a couple of murals or a piece of art for the

museum, for, you know, the tour, and and who do you think? When I

was on the phone to them, a young man called Paul Maguire

happened to be in the room at the same time. He heard the

conversation and he said, I'll take that. Thank you very much.

And the rest, they say, is history because Paul and I have

now worked on the 2 murals here. We have plans afoot to do much

more. So that will hopefully be coming. Tell you about that when

we go down to the Victorian platform. So in the museum here,

the mural, the projection onto the wall was created by 20 3rd

year students who were 3rd year in 2019.

Right. And I just said to them, I've got a big white wall. Gonna

fill it, please. Something about the station. It was a very loose

brief, but that was the first time, these group of students

had ever had a real customer.

It was giving them great experience for going out into

the real world. So I had a budget. I had, you know, a kind

of a spec of what I wanted Yeah. And where the location and what

you could deal with and you're the subject matter. And that

allowed them to to almost create a contract and deal Yeah.

A customer. I was their customer. And they did it. And I

think it's wonderful. I think it's absolutely wonderful.

And the music, I think, is just, just fabulous. Yes.

Fay Young: Reading the reports of of how this work developed,

there seemed to be a real emotional connection with the

work, with, especially the wartime memories, and, Paul

Maguire, seemed to be really

Jackie Ogilvie: Paul Maguire, I think his piece when we talk

about the 1st world war, I think his piece there it just I don't

know what to say because I just think it really it nails it. It

absolutely nails it. It personalises what we're talking

about. It kind of makes it more real to the people of Glasgow.

Should we go and have a look at it?

Yes. Of course. Come on.

Fay Young: The door opens and closes as we move from the

museum into a really different space. It's dark and silent, and

we're standing in front of a wall where the names of the

fallen flicker in white on black. These are the names of

the 17,000 soldiers who died in the First World War. It's a very

simple display which constantly changes with the names of the

fallen alongside their street addresses, and that's what seems

to stir very powerful emotions in the people who stand here and

look.

So when we came when I came here, we did have, like, the

stretcher and the World War I wheelchair and what have you,

but that was it. There was nothing here except the history

of at the beginning, the very early days of World War I, this

was used as a temporary mortuary.

It would be a bit of a mixture of soldiers who were brought

home because of repatriation, which only lasted for a very

brief time, I believe. But there would be a huge amount of

soldiers who would arrive here who were coming home sick,

alive, but died en route but they would arrive here. Very

really, Paul and I both had a really strong feeling about

creating something here. I didn't know what we wanted. I

knew how I wanted to feel, but I didn't want I didn't know.

I'm not an arty person. I actually didn't even know what

was available. And then when Paul Maguire came along, and he

started talking about, you know, a moving mural, a line. You

know, this this kind of thing. And this was new to me.

I I didn't know you could have done something that's as

creative as this. And and I'll never forget the 1st day he

showed me because we were sat there on a couple of wee stools,

and he had his laptop. And he showed me it. And and I showed

it on just on a small screen. And whenever I saw it, I I knew

I knew then Mhmm.

It was exactly what we needed and exactly the right thing to

be here, which was just it was just wonderful. And so huge,

huge thanks to Paul Maguire. And we're going to do some more work

with them. And we've already got stuff in the pipeline. So but

I'll tell you about when we get there.

Niall Murphy: It's just The street names? Yes. Funny, it's

not the individual names. It's the street names. Because you

recognize the streets.

Because the streets you walked at so you have a kind of

connection with the streets, and then you're thinking that

somebody who is so young lost their life. I I just find that

really emotional and

Jackie Ogilvie: Yeah. I I think it makes it makes it our list.

Yeah. Our city's list as opposed to an anonymous list.

Niall Murphy: I have seen my own street in this. Oh, right. Oh,

that's my street.

Jackie Ogilvie: And it changes all the time.

Niall Murphy: So young would have died.

Fay Young: It's it's so simple, but the silence is also really

effective, isn't it? Just seeing Very much. The names standing

Jackie Ogilvie: And that just runs all the time. It's on a

loop. And it just from the 7 it's a database of the 17,696

that lost their life, and and then it just pulls them out

Right. At random. It's a random program that just brings

different ones.

Yeah. So you could stand here all day. I see my surname on it.

I've only seen it a couple of times, and I'm down here all the

time. So it's different people all the time coming through.

Some names do come up. You see them. They do come up more

often.

Niall Murphy: And Watson, Saint Andrews Road, Pollockshields .

Jackie Ogilvie: But yeah. But all the addresses are the

Glasgow addresses. So when we're coming down here, you have to

remember in the station that so good trains would come into the

station quite a lot back in the day. Goods would come in, and

then the goods would need to be dispersed across the station

across the city. And of course, that was done by horse and cat.

Central station has its own stables. So here we have part of

the old stables. So along at the end there, you can see wooden

slatted bits there. So apparently that would open and

they would put down the feed the horse feed for the horses rather

than bring it through all the corridors and bring it down.

They would just drop it down, and then that would allow them

to feed the horses.

So Right. This is some of the stables. And it's always quite

difficult to because you're looking at this smaller room,

but there's been so many additions that have been added

on and done, And so so this is probably not exactly what the

stables would have looked like back then, but they've been

adapted to the needs of the station as as the station's

needs have changed.

Niall Murphy: Okay. So it's that floor above this concrete

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes. Which is

Niall Murphy: fascinating too. So that would

Jackie Ogilvie: be because that's the base of the low

level. So that's a more modern wall, because what the low

level's been renovated and redone when numerous times going

through. So this is, believe it or not, the green corridor.

We're we're very, very creative in the railway when we're giving

names to places. And just for for anybody listening in, it's

painted top to bottom.

Good morning. So all these cables, they're supplying. So

some of them are power. Yeah. Some of them are technology.

Yeah. Right. But miles upon miles upon miles. Miles. And the

reason that they are all on the surface is because they're all

post filled.

When the station opened her door, she was just lit by gas.

Yeah. She was heated by steam. We had with no appetite

whatsoever for electricity. So that's why when you see all the

cabling, it's not always as visible as it is in this

particular corridor, but it is all on the surface.

Fay Young: It's the nervous system, isn't it? Of the

station.

Jackie Ogilvie: I wouldn't like there to be a fuse blown in any

of them. I let them.

Niall Murphy: Here we go. Thank you.

Jackie Ogilvie: So of course, we're now we've emerged from a

wee door on the side that you've maybe all passed a 1000 times,

and we're now in the low level platform 16 and 17. Come on,

let's head through and we'll get down another set of seats. Can I

just get everybody to tuck into the left? And that lets people

running for the train get get passed.

Niall Murphy: So next, Jackie takes us through the small door

in the otherwise ordinary corridor that takes you down to

the low level platforms. And through this door, you get into

a very compressed space and you have to lower your head to step

under a beam. And then you're at the top of the steel stair

overlooking this kind of vast, dark, open space. And as you

descend into it, gradually, you get to see things like these

enormous iron clasp columns that you realize are supporting this

kind of huge heavy station above. And this right in the

depths of the station is what is going to be the Victorian

platform.

This is is a treat.

Fay Young: Oh, she's in.

Jackie Ogilvie: I need to lock in stone.

Niall Murphy: Thank you very much.

Jackie Ogilvie: Just mind your heads on the second door. We

could down the bottom of the stairs and go left.

Fay Young: I would. Look at that.

Niall Murphy: I know. Fabulous columns.

Jackie Ogilvie: So this bit, the view from the top of the stairs

here, to me Mhmm. This is the most impressive. And so many

people walk right past this as they're coming down to the

Victorian platform and their eagerness to get down. To me,

when people stop here, they're usually engineers or architects.

Engineers are architects.

Niall Murphy: Just the scale of the engineering is something

else.

Jackie Ogilvie: See that there? Uh-huh. That there? That big bit

of that column and that big lump of concrete Yep. Is holding up

central station.

I know. It's amazing, isn't it?

Niall Murphy: I mean, it's so huge, and it's it's the fact

that they went all the effort to make it a classically detailed

column as well. It's quite something. It's beautiful, and

yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: It is beautiful. So this is very atmospheric down

here. The Victorian platform was used right up until 1964. Steam

trains would have come through here, and then in 'sixty four,

it closed. That was Beechings, cuts again.

And it remained closed right up until 1979. And when they

reopened pre-sixty four, there was track, platform, track,

track, platform, faraway track. And when they opened in 'seventy

9, they just opened

Niall Murphy: 2

Jackie Ogilvie: of the track, which is 16 and 17 today, which

is just on the other side of the wall that we're all looking at.

So here, it became a closed space. These modern walls, maybe

'seventy seven, 'seventy eight, they would be built. And the

reason for that was just to make the low level a more manageable

space. It was just to keep it tidy, I suppose, and lock this

off because it wasn't being used.

And Paul, he managed to find it. I think he was aware of it

anyway. And over a period of time, first of all, when they

did the tours, you would stand at the top and look through a

hole in the wall. Then they cut a doorway in the wall and they

had a platform and then we got our lovely Victorian staircase.

Yes.

Maybe not. It's a bit harsh, but it meets the requirements for

health and safety. Yes. So which is the most important thing down

here. So an interesting thing down here, the girders here.

Now underneath what you can see there is concrete. Of girders If

those if we took that concrete off, that would look like that.

Mhmm. And the reason it has concrete on it to protect it

from corrosion from the steam trains.

Mhmm. So that was the Victorians that did that. Right. Part of

the the works that they did on the Argyle line Mhmm. And and

COVID, I have lost track of time.

I think it's now 2 years ago Mhmm. When we closed for 3 or 4

months. And part of the work that was done was taking the

concrete off all of the the the the the length of the tunnel,

the Argyle tunnel. And that's because they really want to be

able to see what's going on and With the actual

Niall Murphy: steel work.

Jackie Ogilvie: With the actual steel work as opposed to having

it covered up. Yeah. And not knowing till something goes

wrong.

Niall Murphy: Yeah. Until it starts corroding. Yes. Yep.

Jackie Ogilvie: A check every year, always pass. Right. These

were made to last.

Niall Murphy: Right. Absolutely. They're

Jackie Ogilvie: Absolutely made to last. And and we could I

doubt if we could build this station today. Took over

10,000,000 Glasgow bricks to build this station. Mhmm. We'd

be able to find 10,000,000 bricks today.

Niall Murphy: I know. Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: That that would be your first problem. The whole

brickwork don't

Niall Murphy: we don't we don't have, like, a Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: Industrial capacity anymore.

Fay Young: No. That's right.

Jackie Ogilvie: So 16 and 17 is just through there. For a bit of

context, when we're standing looking at the old track bed,

this would have been an eastbound line. Out there is the

west, so that would be the SEC. Out that way, Argyle Street,

that's north, that's south. Mhmm.

That just gives you a wee feel for your direction because it's

very difficult to keep a handle on.

Niall Murphy: It is. Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: I mean, really difficult. Yes. And sometimes

I'm I think, oh, where where I'm where I'm. You know? It takes a

wee minute.

I need to be something just to to bring me back into to on

track as to where we are.

Niall Murphy: Absolutely. But the low-level Station would have

been very different as well because where that hotel now is

the Utell Yeah. Just to the west, that was actually open.

Yes. Because you you had, like, a parade of shops around it, but

it was an open well.

Yes. So you didn't have daylight coming into

Jackie Ogilvie: I kind of when people say to me, what the

access for here? So current level, the access was where it

is today. And access for here was from our. So where where the

hotel is, I tell people you're you're using your as a well. I

just see it's a big hole because that's what when you look at

photographs that's what it looks like and and it it was open so

there would be access it would be ventilation would be part of

that.

Down here also, I'm still researching. I have no idea what

it's going to come out as, but we have a couple of good sidings

here. These are ends of good sidings here. So we think that

what happened was goods would have come in to the station in

wagons, The wagons would be shunted into the sidings, and

they would be unloaded and loaded. So they would be taken

out the hole or the well, taking out that would be the access

point for getting it out again.

And we think the piece around the back initially, we did think

it might be a ladies waiting room, but It never sat well with

me because it's the wrong side of the track. So it didn't fit.

It's also much more than I thought. So that's been storage

that's been warehouse and potentially there would be more

access beyond round the back there's chamber after chamber

after chamber under arches all the way to Midland Street and

beyond. So it's quite

Niall Murphy: It makes sense when you think about the

station's location, the Clyde being so close. You know? You

would get goods being unloaded from here and then being taken

down to the Clyde to be loaded onto a ship. Mhmm. So that's

what all most of the buildings, certainly, to the south of here,

were all big warehouse buildings for that purpose.

Jackie Ogilvie: Absolutely. And I think it's important to

remember what was here before because when we look now, if we

we'll take a wee wander around the back here. I have some maps

right here. And these maps, whilst I love them, they

actually make me feel a bit sad. And they make me sad because

they are all of our old stations.

The 4 main stations, mind your feet on this wee bit. It's a bit

uneven. The 4 main stations in Glasgow, the 4 so central

stations, St. Enoch, Queen Street and Buchanan Street. And

when you look at the picture of you're on the map of the station

and then look around it, look.

Look.

Niall Murphy: Yeah. So

Jackie Ogilvie: Industry, manufacturing. We're making

things, millions of things, all different things, and it's all

gone. Yeah. So that makes me sad.

Niall Murphy: Yes. Yeah.

Jackie Ogilvie: And then also what made me sad was the fact

that I thought Glasgow must must have been very, very poor.

Because look, poor house, poor house. Then I remembered we were

in Glasgow, it's public house. And I hate to say it, but most

of them are still here today. So this is a good picture of

original station, the St.

Columba's Gaelic Church just sitting right there. So that's

what you see what was there and what wasn't there and all of

this. And that's, of course, how the Hielanman's umbrella got its

name because the highlanders would come out of the church,

and they would take their way down somewhere to gather to

first of all, to to to get out the rain. Employers would come

along and offer them work. They would also come along just just

generally to to mingle, to catch up with friends and family, but

news maybe a bit back home and also especially to talk Gaelic.

Uh-huh. Mhmm. That was one of the big things. So that's why

it's called the Hielanman's umbrella. Right.

Niall Murphy: Fascinating because you had different the

entrance was Mhmm. Originally. Yeah. But you had this much

Jackie Ogilvie: Yeah.

Niall Murphy: You know, you have this booking hall in the center

where it had 2 passengers either side of it.

Jackie Ogilvie: And, of course, look how much further forward

the tracks are. But then you'll get the platform in that. Very,

very different. I mean, right away, it comes.

Niall Murphy: And there's your platforms the other way around.

So platform 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.

Fay Young: Yeah. And there's just something very strong and

powerful about these lines coming into this.

Niall Murphy: But it makes you realize why they they would have

pulled them back because you get much, much

Fay Young: more Yes.

Jackie Ogilvie: Yes. Very much so. Yeah. Very harsh so. And, of

course, they added the slope.

Mhmm. So, probably you probably maybe maybe have noticed that

there is a slope when you come in, and that was James Millers.

Very subtle crowd control. Very subtle. It's very subtle because

you don't always realize it unless you're lugging a big Yep.

Heavy case or what have you. And as you're walking in, but it's a

slope, so it comes in and it's cramped through. Level there.

Yep.

Niall Murphy: And by the time you're out here, you're kind of

looking at the Hielanman's umbrella. Yeah.

You're 2 stories up. So which is fascinating. It's so subtle.

Jackie Ogilvie: But quite incredible.

Fay Young: So are you planning to develop this

Niall Murphy: this map.

Fay Young: Area or

Jackie Ogilvie: So down here, more maps because everybody

loves a map. Probably put up some more maps. What I really

want to do because on the tour, we don't really cater a huge

amount for the people who love the technologies or the

technical side of the railways, the track, the signaling. We

hope this wall here, opposite the maps, to have offcuts of all

the different types of tracks that you have, all the bits that

you use to make a track, to lay a track. It's not just a matter

of, you know so we'll get technical people to assist us in

annotating that and explaining that to people.

So that's the plan for that side of the wall. I've got a lot of

stuff, a lot of stuff to be put down here to address it. Yes. We

also, hope to bring in a steam locomotive as well. And we hope

to lay track on the track out there and bring in a steam

locomotive.

Although, really, it's not an easy task. And part of the

problem is silting. Right. So in 2002, there was a terrible flood

down here. Mhmm.

The water was at the levels of those strip lights, okay? So

what is that about 10 feet?

Niall Murphy: Yes. So all this would have been pumped out.

Jackie Ogilvie: We actually contacted North Sea oil rig

people and borrowed or rented their pumps. They drilled holes

in Hope Street to come down to all the the water up. I take it

they put it back in the Clyde because where else could it go?

And and it was something to do with the drainage system. When I

look at it, I think it must have been fitted back to front or it

just it wasn't suitable and because the Clyde is tidal.

And then when the tide was really high for a particular

reason and the water came in. It couldn't get back out again. So

they fixed the problem because we did have a we had a drainage

system that wasn't fit for purpose because it didn't work

properly. It wasn't allowing the water to escape, and they fixed

all of that. It won't happen again, but it caused a lot of

work down here, a lot of lot of issues down here.

I can imagine. The low level was closed for for a long time. They

they brought that back. Yeah. But they left where we are just

now, and that left about 2 to 3 feet of silt.

So when we're looking to bring our locomotive in, we have the

the silting is fine because it's a solid base for us to lay our

track, but we have a height differential. And that means we

would have to push a 26 and a half ton locomotive up. Help.

Help. I don't think it's an easy thing to do safely.

And it's all about safety. We think we might have a solution,

but we're waiting to see. Interesting. I hope

Niall Murphy: that will be so amazing.

Jackie Ogilvie: It will be. But, initially, what we're doing now

is we are we need to start with fire safety, and that's our

starting point

Niall Murphy: and

Jackie Ogilvie: see what we need to do to make it safe to do what

we want to do. The school of art have come up with some fabulous,

fabulous stuff. So current students work under the

stewardship of Paul Maguire again. He has been fabulous, and

some of the stuff they've come up with is just wonderful. And

so because of if we do down here, what we'll need to it's

gonna have a real impact on the tourism.

What we need to do is cut some of the stories from up the

stairs. We just can't accommodate that in the day or

in the time of the tour. So the plan will be that we cut the

stories from up there, but we give access to that information

down here. And he's come up with a thing called a Pepper's ghost.

So it's it's augmented reality, and some of the Victorian

invention that was done by lights, but we are going to use

iPads or tablets, and it might be myself or Paul narrating the

stories or you know, that we've cut from up the stairs and the

QR codes to get behind all of that.

Niall Murphy: Right.

Jackie Ogilvie: So give people still give them the information,

but not not delivering it there and then taking up their time.

And then you can tailor that then to the people that want to

hear about that in particular. The trouble's gonna be telling

what's what we need to cut out. That's, you know, that's a lot

of the the stuff that we need to cut out. So so so that's future.

Fay Young: Unless it's like layers, like you've got in the

station, you know, you go for down to different parts. You you

reach Yeah. The underground eventually.

Jackie Ogilvie: It's just it's an incredible, incredible

building.

Niall Murphy: Mhmm. It really is. Still my favorite in

Glasgow.

Fay Young: Yeah. What a wonderful project for Glasgow

School of Art students.

Jackie Ogilvie: Oh, they they're just great, and they're so

enthusiastic. They are and and I have to say, I am as I've said

earlier, I am not an arty person. I'm not these people are

so creative, and they do it, you know that's why they go to that

school, obviously, but it comes to them, and and you think, how

did you think of that? So I am I'm in great admiration for

these lovely students that I think will definitely go on and

do great things. And whilst it's a local school, there are people

from all over the world attending that school Yeah.

And having a part Yes. An influence on part of Central

Station. How fabulous is that? Absolutely.

Fay Young: But the way you tell the stories, the way you connect

with it will also be a great inspiration to them.

Jackie Ogilvie: I hope so. It's I often get told I should be on

the stage. Paul is the same. And what you have to remember is

what I've shown people when they come around here.

I don't have once you come underneath yes. We have a

fabulous structure up the stairs, but once you come

underneath, it's brickwork arches. It's not an awful lot. I

don't have beautiful paintings on the walls. I don't have, you

know, wonderful statues.

What we have are stories, and it's the stories that bring it

alive. It's the human element. It's the human element. Yeah.

And that's what people relate to.

That's why this tour is so popular. Yeah. It's It's not

because we've got the best building well well, we do have

the best building. But it's not because we have the most

striking building on I don't know whatever In every place.

Fay Young: Yes. In every part of it.

Jackie Ogilvie: It is. It's the stories. Yeah. And everybody can

relate to all of these stories at some point. So they might not

relate to all of the stories, but they will relate to some of

them.

Yeah. And that'll continue if we keep telling the stories. Yeah.

Niall Murphy: Thank you very much. Thank you. Absolute

pleasure. Okay. And finally then, and this is a question we

ask everybody who comes on the podcast, what is your favorite

building in Glasgow, and what would it tell you if it's

walls could talk?

Jackie Ogilvie: Obviously,

my favorite building is Central Station. But if we take that out

of the equation, it would be it's a really a strange reason

for having this. It's a building that I never ever saw much of,

but it's the old stock exchange building on the corner of Nelson

Mandela Place and Buchanan Street. It's where the Lush shop

is. It's up above that, and it's all the beautiful colors of the

brickwork and and the detailing of the brickwork, and I just

think that was, you know, the foundation of all the industry

that was going on at the time.

I just think that's really an interesting building. And what

frustrates the hell out of me is most people don't even see it.

So I think if I could talk, it would tell us what it was like

back then, what the trade was like, and and that would give

you a real insight into the social history because the trade

was what drove people's jobs, people's lifestyles, everything.

So it would have so much to tell you.

Speaker 5: Glasgow City Heritage Trust is an independent charity

and grant funder that promotes the understanding, appreciation,

and conservation of Glasgow's historic built environment. Do

you want to know more? Have a look at our website

at glasgowheritage.org.uk and follow us on social media at

Glasgow Heritage. This podcast was produced by Inner Ear for

Glasgow City Heritage Trust and is sponsored by Tunnock's.